Second Agenda Item

DameKyrie
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:51 pm

Second Agenda Item

Postby DameKyrie » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:01 pm

Agenda Item #2 - Alternate Requirements for Territory Advancement

3. Kingdom
A Kingdom is considered a Landed Estates within the Empire therefore only a. and b.
from above apply. A new Kingdom must have the permission of the Kingdom that it
resides in and the Imperial Estates to form.
a. King or Queen-Sovereign Crown of a Kingdom, defined as at least 125 paid members or 10 years of continuous membership and 7 knights with a minimum of 2 knights in each area and 2 Imperial Knights in any area, in a geographically specific region set by the Imperial Estates.
i. Kings & Queens, as rulers of Sovereign Kingdoms, may wear
Royal Crowns, defined as the Coronet worn by the Sovereign Crown of a Kingdom, decorated as deemed appropriate by the Kingdom Estates, though at least 4 points is recommended.
(a) The Sovereign’s Crown denotes the upper limit of ‘elaboration’ of Coronets in the Kingdom; no other noble may have a ‘greater’ coronet (greater as defined by the Crown College of Arms).
ii. A gold chain of state, denoting their vote upon the Imperial and Crown Estates.
iii. A cloak of state, and
iv. A sword of state.
b. Crown Princes and Crown Princesses are temporary titles held by those who have gained the throne of their Kingdom but have not yet been installed in the position of a Sovereign Crown.
i. Crown Princes and Crown Princesses may wear Crowns befitting their station, as determined by the Kingdom.
4. Landed Estates of Kingdoms and subject Territories
Are defined as Estates within a Kingdom that hold voting power on one or
more Estates based on numbers of people represented as noted below.
a. Prince or Princess – Subject Crown of a Principality, defined as a
geographically specific region within a Kingdom as defined by the Crown
Estates of that Kingdom and containing at least 75 paid members over and
above the numbers needed to maintain a Kingdom or 7 years of conintuous membership and at least 6 Knights with at least 2 Knights in Ministry and Arts, 1 in Combat and 1 Imperial Knight in Ministry..
i. Princes and Princesses, as rulers of Principalities, may wear a Principality Coronet, which is the coronet worn by the rulers of a Principality, determined by the Kingdom Estates.
ii. A gold chain of state denoting their vote upon the Imperial and Crown Estates.
b. Duke or Duchess -Ruler of a Duchy, which is defined as a geographically
distinct region within a Kingdom or Principality containing at least 50 paid
members or a minimum of 4 years of continuous membership and at least 4 knights with at least 1 knight each in Ministry and Arts.
i. Dukes and Duchesses, as rulers of Duchies, may wear a Ducal Coronet, which is a coronet decorated with Gold Strawberry Leaves.
ii. A black chain of state, denoting their vote upon the Estates.
c. Marquis or Marquessa - Ruler of a March, defined as a geographically distinct Territory within the boundaries of a Kingdom (as defined by the imperial estates) and consisting of at least 25 paid members in residence or a minimum of 2 years of continious membership and 2 knights with at least 1 in Ministry.
i. Marquis and Marquessa, as rulers of Marches, may wear a Simple Coronet with One point, ornamented as appropriate. This coronet may not have any 'minor' points.
ii. A black chain denoting their vote upon the Kingdom and there.
d. Castellan- an appointed deputy of a Crown or ruler, whose duty is to oversee a Province on behalf of their liege. The Castellan acts as a non-voting representative of their liege and must refer all matters of governance to their superior. This power of appointment can be modified as per Kingdom Law.
i. The sumptuary right of the Castellan shall be a belt favor with a gold key emblazoned upon it.
ii. The Castellan has no voting rights upon any Estates inherent in their office.

Intent: I feel this would help the outlying territories achieve advancement in Kingdom status while making sure that they have the rulers and experience to govern accordingly.

Submitted by
Baroness Dame Kyrie Mckay
Terra Norte

Valdis
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 7:48 am

Re: Second Agenda Item

Postby Valdis » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:39 pm

I like the idea of requiring a given length of time for continuous membership, although I feel we should still have minimum numbers (I can think of a couple of areas that have had one paid member for quite some time, and that member has had no activity within the club for several years).

I'm curious about the imperial knighthood requirement. I believe we should require active knights, but is a K3 truly necessary to display leadership? I know of a number of active knights who are not K3s, have been in the club continuously for several years, and continuously demonstrate their ability to lead.

Mynwyn
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:15 pm

Re: Second Agenda Item

Postby Mynwyn » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:01 pm

I'd have to agree with Valdis. Galandor currently has neither K2's nor K3's in Ministry--not for lack of trying, just lack of people passing Ministry Projects. (I myself have tried 5 and passed only 2 of those, for various reasons, mostly nothing I could control.) All of our previous higher level knights have left. It doesn't indicate a lack of leadership in the kingdom, just an attrition. Maybe a K2 in ministry as a minimum requirement, and we should still keep at least some minimum number--the minimum for a group at all is 5, but we shouldn't have a kingdom of only 5 people. That gives a very small number of people a very large vote on the Imperial Estates. There should be some happy medium we can get to.

I'm not even sure when we last had someone raised to K3 in ministry. It certainly hasn't happened in Galandor in many years.

Either way, I need you to email me this (or your final) proposal for it to go into the agenda. If you don't have my email, several other do, or you can PM me on any of the boards and I'll give it to you.

Myn

Valdis
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 7:48 am

Re: Second Agenda Item

Postby Valdis » Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:31 pm

I'm not even sure when we last had someone raised to K3 in ministry. It certainly hasn't happened in Galandor in many years.


Myn, I'm not sure if you mean "We" to mean the ECS or "We" to mean Galandor - Vega raised two knights to Knight Premier at Ren Faire 2010 - LS Paul de Marseilles and LD Isabeau Needlemeyer

Mynwyn
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:15 pm

Re: Second Agenda Item

Postby Mynwyn » Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:19 pm

I meant mostly "We" Galandor. I'm obviously not so up on Vega Knightings. Either way, I think requiring K3's might be a bit much. Personal opinion anyway.

Myn

Valdis
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 7:48 am

Re: Second Agenda Item

Postby Valdis » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:59 pm

:)

DameKyrie
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:51 pm

Re: Second Agenda Item

Postby DameKyrie » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:37 pm

I still think the Imperial Peer should be a requirement as it shows dedication and leadership ability. Do understand the requests for a minimum membership number. Maybe at least 25 (Marquisette) or the minimum members for 1 level below desired new status.

Dame Kyrie

Valdis
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 7:48 am

Re: Second Agenda Item

Postby Valdis » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:49 am

I disagree about the K3...

Mynwyn
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:15 pm

Re: Second Agenda Item

Postby Mynwyn » Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:06 pm

I also disagree about the K3. As for the minimum number requirements, if you put the requirements as the next lowest level, that still requires 125 members for a kingdom, since principality requires 125 members additional to the kingdom numbers. I think that the numbers should start lower and go up. Maybe 15 for a Marquisette, 25 for Duchy, and 50 for kingdom and principality. Something like that.

Myn

Valdis
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 7:48 am

Re: Second Agenda Item

Postby Valdis » Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:37 pm

I like that idea, Myn.

Maybe the K3 requirement could be replaced with requiring more knights, or knights in specific areas?


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