Knight Errant

Mynwyn
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Knight Errant

Postby Mynwyn » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:17 am

Since I haven't gotten any response from this on the Imperial Electors board, I'm going to post it here in hopes of getting something.

Galandor is asking the Imperial Estates to approve the following on a trial basis.

Knight Errancy:

1. Knight Errant: A Knight who can no longer fulfill his or her duties to the Peerage and to the Kingdom may elect to declare themselves an “Knight Errant”.

a. Such does not remove title or rank, but the member agrees to rescind themselves the following rights:
i. The right to vote in a Peer Circle
ii. The right to take a Squire
iii. The right to vie for the Crown of a Kingdom or Principality
iv. The Errant does not count toward quorum.
v. An Errant Combatant does not count toward a Knightly List, but may still win a Knightly List.

b. The peerage may declare an inactive Knight as Errant. This will be done by the tier to which the missing Knight belongs. Inactive will include no regular presence at events or on the boards for at least 1 year.

c. These rights, voluntarily or not, given up by the Errant can be taken up again upon a written letter of intent to the Peerage, 60 days before the resumption of the rights of the Peer.

d. Please note, this is for those Knights who are not able to be active in the Kingdom for a period of time. Abuse of this privilege may result in action being taken by the peerage.


We have at least 2 members of our peer circles that no longer attend any events. We've essentially placed them in this category, but we'd like official sanction to proceed on this. We'd like to put this in the Legis Galandoris to make it official and don't really want to wait until November to proceed with this. If this works well, we'll probably propose this to the full Imperial Estates in November.

Please feel free to post with any questions.

Myn

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Paul de Marseilles
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Re: Knight Errant

Postby Paul de Marseilles » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:16 pm

Your Excellency,

The Board of Directors usually can only act on mundane issues.
This appears to be a game related issue.

The Imperial Electors are part of the Imperial Estates.
They do not have any independent power outside of their voting rights on the Imperial Estates.
The Imperial Estates can only act in a meeting.
These meetings can be held on an emergency basis (which has been done in the past but on a fairly rare basis) or at the yearly meeting (which is usually held in the Fall).

May I assume that you wish to place this item on the Agenda for the upcoming Imperial Estates meeting in the Fall?

In Service,

Paul de Marseilles
Baron Sir Paul de Marseilles, KP, KBn, LoE

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Lark
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Re: Knight Errant

Postby Lark » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:15 am

Well, there was some discussion in Galandor weather this is something that should be handled on a Kingdom level, or an Imperial level. Those saying Imperial state that this is creating another Knighthood, and therefore it needs to be handled Imperially, while those saying that it's only further restricting what the LI says about Knighthood, and so its OK to do on a Kingdom level.

I think at this point, what we're looking for is clarification, and/or consensus on where this should be handled so we know which Estates to submit it to.
Feudalism: It's your Count that votes.

Valdis
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Re: Knight Errant

Postby Valdis » Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:11 pm

As I recall, the Ostgard bylaws allowed for errancy, and the Vega Ministry peerage (at least... I'm not sure about Arts and Combat) also has a similar handling of knights who do not attend (or send proxies) to a certain number of peer circles.

In that light, there is certainly precedence for it to be a kingdom issue. That said, if all the kingdoms observe it, why not make it Imperial?

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lassidor
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Re: Knight Errant

Postby lassidor » Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:17 pm

As Valdis said every knigdom has had this problem and done something to deal with it. Myn I wish you would get it on the next agenda.

There is one thing I think could lead to abuse and that is point 1.v.

"v. An Errant Combatant does not count toward a Knightly List, but may still win a Knightly List."

imho if a knight combatant feels that they don't wish, for whatever reason, to count towards a knightly list then they should also not be able to earn them. I think this should extend to judging of MP/MW and gaining new ones as well for the knights of the other two tiers.

Another question would be how does the errantcy affect the estates voting rights of 2nd and 3rd level knights?
Duke Sir Lassidor Vandolini, KC, BOD treasurer, Imperial Exchequer, Defiance member, BoC of the Kingdom of Vega

Sir Rabbit
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Re: Knight Errant

Postby Sir Rabbit » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:14 am

The topic of a knight being able to win/give away a list was quite a debated topic. What you see in the proposal is what the electors of galandor unofficially voted to include, choosing from 4 possible outcomes.

As far as the voting goes, i dont think we touched on that...
Sir Richard 'The Rabbit' Kirk - KC

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Paul de Marseilles
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Re: Knight Errant

Postby Paul de Marseilles » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:42 pm

My Lords and Ladies

I believe that the issue sought to be addressed in this proposal affects several Kingdoms.
I would strongly encourage that it be placed on the Agenda for the upcoming Imperial Estates meeting.
On another note, can someone tell me the rationale or theory behind the proposal that a Combat Knight doesn't count towards a Knightly List but they can earn a Knightly List?

In Service,

Paul de Marseilles
Baron Sir Paul de Marseilles, KP, KBn, LoE

HRM Sanguinius
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Re: Knight Errant

Postby HRM Sanguinius » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:32 pm

Simply put, Knight Errants aren't "knights" in the traditional sense and would not count for being a 'knight' in a tourney. However, they are members of the ECS, and like any member of the ECS they can earn Knightly Lists when they win a tourney another knight has entered.

Sir Rabbit
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Re: Knight Errant

Postby Sir Rabbit » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:59 pm

The status of a Knight Combatant and what they can/cannot do as a Knight Errant was the most debated topic concerning this proposal, as you can see.

Brother Paul, I will be in town tonight through Sunday, and Id love to see you. I can fill you in on the various reasonings then, if we do get a chance to hang out.
Sir Richard 'The Rabbit' Kirk - KC

Mynwyn
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Re: Knight Errant

Postby Mynwyn » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:27 am

We actually looked at the voting rights for 2nd and 3rd level knights, but then determined that this is just for knighthood. The appropriate level of Estates should take up the voting aspect. We thought it would be stepping on toes that we shouldn't if we started making decisions about that.

Myn


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